Comments on: Interned at Groningen in 1914 http://www.ceuig.com/archives/918 Fresh notes and old stories from Uig Historical Society, Isle of Lewis Wed, 08 Feb 2012 01:54:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: sarah http://www.ceuig.com/archives/918#comment-2927 sarah Fri, 26 Aug 2011 14:18:05 +0000 http://www.ceuig.com/?p=918#comment-2927 Thanks Elizabeth - that's very interesting. Guido has asked me to post the following: Could you post a comment on my behalf to advise Elizabeth Hicks that I have passed the link of this thread to Menno Wielinga, as he is able to answer some of the questions she poses, particularly with regards to the Will Langdale she refers to. She may already be in touch with Menno direct. Thanks Elizabeth – that’s very interesting. Guido has asked me to post the following:

Could you post a comment on my behalf to advise Elizabeth Hicks that I have passed the link of this thread to Menno Wielinga, as he is able to answer some of the questions she poses, particularly with regards to the Will Langdale she refers to. She may already be in touch with Menno direct.

]]> By: Elizabeth Hicks http://www.ceuig.com/archives/918#comment-2922 Elizabeth Hicks Tue, 23 Aug 2011 19:06:11 +0000 http://www.ceuig.com/?p=918#comment-2922 Since finding Menno's website a few years ago, Keith(my husband) and I visited Groningen and Menno kindly took us around the town , showing us where the English camp etc. was . My Father , William( or Bay ) Hicks (born in 1891)was one of the Hawke Battalion, originally from S. East London who found himself in this odd situation of being interned for four years. It must have been even stranger for him, because he became one of the prominent members of the camp Pierrot troupe,The Timbertown Follies, that achieved enormous popularity and fame in Holland . We visited the main theatre in Groningen where they often performed,but they were also allowed to go on tour in Holland, and after the war, on returning to London, they appeared at The Wigmore Hall. My Father married late in life to a much younger woman, my sister and I grew up in the 50's and 60's, and although I knew the outline of his story, he didn't talk a great deal about it. I was beginning to become very interested in that period of entertainment towards the end of his life(he died in 1976), but what his feelings about missing the main ' action' were'(his brother survived being in the Royal Flying Corps), I never really knew. I think sometimes he felt 'isolated', and maybe at odds with the modern world , and one day in the late 60's or early 70's, he told me that he had burnt all his photos and stage clothes(he had gone on to do semi pro entertainment after the war). I was very upset when he told me, but I don't know if he realised this. Luckily with the coming of the internet I have managed to buy photos of the The Timbertown Follies and programmes etc of their performances and generally fill in some of the gaps. I would like to contact relatives of Will Langdale, who was his pal , they did a double act together , he must have liked Will a lot, because I found a photo of Will after Daddy died, that escaped the bonfire.I have found out that they did a visit back to England together towards the end of the war. I would also like to contact relatives of Fred Penley who virtually ran the troupe in the first few years at Timbertown . Dad spoke of Penley, because he was the son of the man who starred in' Charlie's Aunt'. One thing that my Father was very outspoken about was his very aimable feelings towards the Dutch people, who he held in great esteem.When ever we met Dutch people on holiday, he went out of his way to befriend them. When the second world war came, I had the feeling that Dad was disappointed that he was too old to fight, however he served in the Home Guard( he couldn't laugh at Dad's Army I expect he didn't like the idea of the H.G as being portrayed as bumbling old men). In his youth he had been in The Royal Naval Division and I have a photo of him taking part in assembling the gun carriage at Hyde Park in a display. I still have the cups he was awarded before WW1 for "Seamanship" etc and his WW1 medals. He had a life long love of the Royal Navy, and as children we spent hours wondering around The Greenwich Maritime Museum, and to this day I find it difficult to hear the tune of "Hearts of Oak" without a touch of emotion. As a post script , my youngest son is interested in making some kind of film /documentary about Timbertown..... infact between us, we have a few plans to leave some kind of memorial to these men, but whether we shall put these plans into action will remain to be seen. Since finding Menno’s website a few years ago, Keith(my husband) and I visited Groningen and Menno kindly took us around the town , showing us where the English camp etc. was . My Father , William( or Bay ) Hicks (born in 1891)was one of the Hawke Battalion, originally from S. East London who found himself in this odd situation of being interned for four years. It must have been even stranger for him, because he became one of the prominent members of the camp Pierrot troupe,The Timbertown Follies, that achieved enormous popularity and fame in Holland . We visited the main theatre in Groningen where they often performed,but they were also allowed to go on tour in Holland, and after the war, on returning to London, they appeared at The Wigmore Hall.
My Father married late in life to a much younger woman, my sister and I grew up in the 50′s and 60′s, and although I knew the outline of his story, he didn’t talk a great deal about it. I was beginning to become very interested in that period of entertainment towards the end of his life(he died in 1976), but what his feelings about missing the main ‘ action’ were’(his brother survived being in the Royal Flying Corps), I never really knew. I think sometimes he felt ‘isolated’, and maybe at odds with the modern world , and one day in the late 60′s or early 70′s, he told me that he had burnt all his photos and stage clothes(he had gone on to do semi pro entertainment after the war). I was very upset when he told me, but I don’t know if he realised this. Luckily with the coming of the internet I have managed to buy photos of the The Timbertown Follies and programmes etc of their performances and generally fill in some of the gaps.
I would like to contact relatives of Will Langdale, who was his pal , they did a double act together , he must have liked Will a lot, because I found a photo of Will after Daddy died, that escaped the bonfire.I have found out that they did a visit back to England together towards the end of the war. I would also like to contact relatives of Fred Penley who virtually ran the troupe in the first few years at Timbertown . Dad spoke of Penley, because he was the son of the man who starred in’ Charlie’s Aunt’.
One thing that my Father was very outspoken about was his very aimable feelings towards the Dutch people, who he held in great esteem.When ever we met Dutch people on holiday, he went out of his way to befriend them.
When the second world war came, I had the feeling that Dad was disappointed that he was too old to fight, however he served in the Home Guard( he couldn’t laugh at Dad’s Army I expect he didn’t like the idea of the H.G as being portrayed as bumbling old men).
In his youth he had been in The Royal Naval Division and I have a photo of him taking part in assembling the gun carriage at Hyde Park in a display. I still have the cups he was awarded before WW1 for “Seamanship” etc and his WW1 medals. He had a life long love of the Royal Navy, and as children we spent hours wondering around The Greenwich Maritime Museum, and to this day I find it difficult to hear the tune of “Hearts of Oak” without a touch of emotion.
As a post script , my youngest son is interested in making some kind of film /documentary about Timbertown….. infact between us, we have a few plans to leave some kind of memorial to these men, but whether we shall put these plans into action will remain to be seen.

]]> By: sarah http://www.ceuig.com/archives/918#comment-2921 sarah Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:43:09 +0000 http://www.ceuig.com/?p=918#comment-2921 Hi David Thanks for that - seems very interesting. Guido and Menno who have done some work on this subject will be interested, and I'll email you with their details. Hi David
Thanks for that – seems very interesting. Guido and Menno who have done some work on this subject will be interested, and I’ll email you with their details.

]]> By: David M Oldroyd http://www.ceuig.com/archives/918#comment-2899 David M Oldroyd Thu, 11 Aug 2011 12:13:46 +0000 http://www.ceuig.com/?p=918#comment-2899 Hi, A few years ago I had a second hand diary that I'd bought in Leeds that was written by a P.W.Pledger of the Hants Battalion who was at Groningen. It was from 1918 and mentions various things such as the armistice, a couple of Soldiers who had died, offensives etc. I gave the diary to a man who I believe was going to write a local book or something like that, relating to Groningen. I don't know if he ever did, but I have copied pages in case there are relatives or anyone needs it for some sort of historical record. Hi, A few years ago I had a second hand diary that I’d bought in Leeds that was written by a P.W.Pledger of the Hants Battalion who was at Groningen. It was from 1918 and mentions various things such as the armistice, a couple of Soldiers who had died, offensives etc. I gave the diary to a man who I believe was going to write a local book or something like that, relating to Groningen. I don’t know if he ever did, but I have copied pages in case there are relatives or anyone needs it for some sort of historical record.

]]> By: George http://www.ceuig.com/archives/918#comment-1175 George Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:08:01 +0000 http://www.ceuig.com/?p=918#comment-1175 I have just spent more than a few years writing up 1000pgs of the family history and 100 pages of this are devoted to my grandfather's and gt uncles 1914-18 exploits. I too noticed a retiscence to talk to we kids about Timbertown ... I put this down to three things.. Granddad's brother saw action at Jutland, Africa and Asia.. lots of medals and became a P.Officer. The newspapers of the time were not too friendly towards the Timbertown internees.. they were quite persuasive and cojoled public opinion (especially down at the pub) amongst the the returning troops. It would have been so frustrating to spend 4 years in limbo not killing the Bosch. Don't forget a great number of recruits had more than one brother killed in that early action on the Belgian border and no chance of payback. I researched the camp, the service records and have loads of photos, debrief reports letters, postcards that my nan kept - I sent these to Meilinga in the form of a 60 pg write up. I don't think that Timbertown men considered themselves to be cowards but tended to avoid converstation with the surviving majority. Peversely my Grandfather's RNVR 1914 star and its accompanying victory set is rarer and more valuable than his brother's 1914/15 star and set of 9 medals! Way to go! All the best George Moor I have just spent more than a few years writing up 1000pgs of the family history and 100 pages of this are devoted to my grandfather’s and gt uncles 1914-18 exploits. I too noticed a retiscence to talk to we kids about Timbertown … I put this down to three things.. Granddad’s brother saw action at Jutland, Africa and Asia.. lots of medals and became a P.Officer. The newspapers of the time were not too friendly towards the Timbertown internees.. they were quite persuasive and cojoled public opinion (especially down at the pub) amongst the the returning troops. It would have been so frustrating to spend 4 years in limbo not killing the Bosch. Don’t forget a great number of recruits had more than one brother killed in that early action on the Belgian border and no chance of payback. I researched the camp, the service records and have loads of photos, debrief reports letters, postcards that my nan kept – I sent these to Meilinga in the form of a 60 pg write up.
I don’t think that Timbertown men considered themselves to be cowards but tended to avoid converstation with the surviving majority.
Peversely my Grandfather’s RNVR 1914 star and its accompanying victory set is rarer and more valuable than his brother’s 1914/15 star and set of 9 medals! Way to go!
All the best
George Moor

]]> By: sarah http://www.ceuig.com/archives/918#comment-947 sarah Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:03:57 +0000 http://www.ceuig.com/?p=918#comment-947 That does seem to have been the general feeling - that they somehow let the side down by being interned and missing the action. Some reluctance to discuss it here. That does seem to have been the general feeling – that they somehow let the side down by being interned and missing the action. Some reluctance to discuss it here.

]]> By: paul http://www.ceuig.com/archives/918#comment-943 paul Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:05:31 +0000 http://www.ceuig.com/?p=918#comment-943 my grandfather was one of those interned in Holland.When talking to him as an old man I once got the impression that he had considered himself cowardly for being part of that group that went into Holland. I considered that to be quite sad but couldn't verify the impression I obtained at that time. The comments about other internees confirms my impression that they did consider they had been cowardly or at least shamefull. my grandfather was one of those interned in Holland.When talking to him as an old man I once got the impression that he had considered himself cowardly for being part of that group that went into Holland. I considered that to be quite sad but couldn’t verify the impression I obtained at that time. The comments about other internees confirms my impression that they did consider they had been cowardly or at least shamefull.

]]> By: Guido Blokland http://www.ceuig.com/archives/918#comment-327 Guido Blokland Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:11:52 +0000 http://www.ceuig.com/?p=918#comment-327 Excellent summary of the story of the Groningen internees. For reference, Groningen is about 230 miles from the place where the servicemen crossed the border from Belgium. It is well worth recounting their tale. As mentioned in the last paragraph above, the men themselves felt it a matter of shame that they had survived, serving the war in the 'cushy life' of an internment camp, rather than fighting on the Western Front, or out at sea. Excellent summary of the story of the Groningen internees. For reference, Groningen is about 230 miles from the place where the servicemen crossed the border from Belgium. It is well worth recounting their tale. As mentioned in the last paragraph above, the men themselves felt it a matter of shame that they had survived, serving the war in the ‘cushy life’ of an internment camp, rather than fighting on the Western Front, or out at sea.

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